Abstract
Predation by rabbits, Cheilosia grossa and especially Epiblema scutulana considerably reduces achene production in Cirsium palustre and Cirsium vulgare. In both species larger plants in a population are more frequently attacked, however the effect of predation is greater in medium sized plants. As a result the contribution of larger plants to the total achene production of the population is increased. In Cirsium vulgare larger populations are more susceptible to attack. The pattern and consequences of predation are discussed in relation to the occurrence in temporary habitats and to selectional processes. Predation intensifies existing developments in the population biology of these species. To compare the effect of predation for both species, detailed information of their population biology is necessary. At the moment the outcome of the comparison can only be indicated.